11/26: County should provide vital services since they knew growth was coming

Editor, the Forum:

How long are the residents supposed to wait for the county to provide vital services? Two very large subdivisions, Apalachee and Hamilton Mill, are not new. They have been planned for over 12 years! Gwinnett knew what was coming; they weren't pro-active and the result are roads, sewers and schools over capacity.

It is amazing that the planners of this area looked down on North Fulton for so long for the explosive growth due to Highway 400 and the access it provided. Well, what about I-85!! If you go within a 10 minute commute of any exit off 85, it is crowded. How could they not plan!

Norcross High came in a year early and under budget, how nice. Was it done during an election year? I'm sure it was. We are not so lucky and our children are the ones bearing the burden.

Please note that according to Dan Seckinger, fast tracking does not exist in Gwinnett. The site is ready, but since Seckinger was just re-elected there is no flame in the fire to hasten the pace of construction. Also please note that the students do not enjoy the space of a doublewide but crowded singles with no windows.

We regret to inform you that our patience has run out. It is not just one more year. Elementary schools are opening over capacity and with trailers. The new Middle and High Schools will also be back in trailers within a few years of opening. There is no end in sight to the trailers.

We are lucky that children are resilient because it is a situation of education in spite of the negative environment and not the environment promoting education. Gwinnett should be a leader in providing a safe, secure and stable environment for its children but once again they have shown that children are not a priority.

-- Laura M. Dillon, Dacula

11/26: Thought comments were thought-provoking

Editor, the Forum:

I appreciate the insight into the political-social-economic-business world of school construction that your columnist Allan Hytowitz and you refer to in the November 22 GwinnettForum.

You mentioned, "Gwinnett may build schools faster, and at a lower cost, than any school system in Georgia. As an example, the new Norcross High came in a year early at a cost of $63 a square foot, compared to a new Fulton County high school, which cost $105 a square foot."

However, I would be highly interested in knowing the cost-per-student of the new construction, especially of the instructional areas alone, not including square footage for hallways, gymnasiums, "commons" areas (i.e. multi-use lunchrooms), etc. Is any information available in this regard? It might be surprising how much money we invest in buildings on a per student (i.e. planned "capacity") basis.

As always, thank you for an excellent and thought-provoking discussion forum.

-- Annette Gelbrich, Norcross

(Editor's note: We checked with the school construction people, and they don't break out their costs the way you suggest. Naturally, we must have those other facilities along with the classrooms to have a complete school. It would be rather easy to check the per student cost by dividing the planned capacity by the total cost.-EEB)

11/26: School system long aware of growth but still stuffs kids in tin-can trailers

Editor, the Forum:

I appreciate your opinion as expressed in the article (about Dacula schools). I concur that the system is building schools faster than many other districts around the country and at a far lesser cost.

While it is true that the people moving into the Dacula area are the source of many of the children that are currently stuffed into tin can trailers, I believe you have failed to recognize that the school system has long been aware of the phenomenal growth taking place in this area.

Being one of the parents that braved the weather the other morning to make a public statement in regards to the overcrowding, I can honestly say I take the Board of Education's many excuses as an affront on the public's intelligence. There is no way they were not aware of the needs that would have to be met in this area of the county in regards to schools. Doing the simple math of calculating the number of students from just one development with 2,700+ homes should have given them a signal of the urgency to act. Nothing more than poor planning.

Again I must agree, The system is doing an above average job of providing our children with an education.

Where the issue really lies though is in the safety, health and welfare of our children. The county has apparently considered these factors and determined they are acceptable risks. I, sir, am not willing to do so. The safety of our children must take precedence over all other factors.

Some of the issues that must be addressed are things like moving the children to the structural safety of the building during inclement weather, security in the event of a lock down, the absence of enough resource officers to effectively patrol the grounds, children eating lunch in a confined space where fungicides and pesticides are regularly applied, not to mention the presence of other potentially harmful chemicals used in the construction of these structures. (Formaldehyde being a major concern since it is regularly used in many glues, epoxies, and even in the manufacture of particleboard that may be used in structures of this nature.)

Elliott, I respectfully suggest that before buying into the rhetoric being offered up by our school system, you do a bit more investigating to determine the merit of what you are being told.

-- Jim Dumond, Buford

11/26: Decision by parents to whine or not determines how students will react

Editor, the Forum:

My children went to Gwinnett schools their entire school years---from the late '70's to 1991, when my youngest graduated from Brookwood. We lived in the then, rapidly growing area of Lilburn/Snellville in what became known as the Brookwood Cluster.

Trailers were a part of the life of school kids, just as they are now. I decided early on that I could whine about it (to no avail....where else would they have classes?) and make my children hate going to school OR make it work to their advantage. Especially in the early grade years, we would go up to the school (R.D. Head) the day or so before school started and look at the postings on the door for who would be the girls' new teachers and classrooms.

Most of the time they were in trailers, from elementary school until high school graduation. I quickly learned to say" Oh, good...you're going to be in a trailer....it will be quieter and you'll have your own corner of the school"....or something like that.

I'm not necessarily a person who always looks at life with the "glass half-full" mentality, but I, the parent that they looked to for reactions, advice, and a bit of wisdom, had a choice to set the tone for the coming school year for my kids. They never thought it was a bad situation and somehow I got them to view it as favorable to learning, which is why they went to school in the first place.

One of those daughters is now also a teacher, living in another state. She graduated with high honors from Brookwood and did the same in three years of undergrad studies as a pure math major then on to get a Master's in education. We were talking about the trailer issue here and she said she always liked it....that it really was quieter and you could concentrate better without all the distractions in the halls etc.

It certainly never hindered her learning nor that of my younger daughter who also was a high achiever. She is not teaching now but has a first grader in a school district that most likely will have trailers soon....she's not opposed. She's more concerned about the quality of education her children will receive....not the aesthetics of their surroundings.

So, parents in crowded schools....you need a reality check here. It's growing Gwinnett...and has been for the 30 years I've lived here. Trailers at schools are hardly worth all the dissention. There are real issues out there--like is your kid learning to read etc.?

Your children will mirror your feelings on this. Kids are pretty adaptable for the most part; it's usually the adults with the preconceived ideas and the unwillingness to be more open-minded and those ideas are pushed off on their susceptible children.

Can't do that? Well....consider moving to a smaller county. Not all trailers produce trash....it's what you put in them and what comes out that matters.

-- Barbara Smith, Tucker

11/26: Remembers double sessions at South Gwinnett

Editor, the Forum:

Thank you for a well thought-out debate on the fast tracking of Dacula Schools. As a parent of three in Gwinnett County schools, and a former GCPS student who attended double sessions at South Gwinnett in the 80's, I am extremely sympathetic to their argument.

But, I can attest that I received outstanding instruction both in the building, and in the "condos", and went on to be a Dean's List student in college - as did many others. My youngest will be entering McConnell Middle next year, and you can bet I will seek a superior teacher for her if they have to meet in the custodian's office.

-- Kelly Herndon, Grayson

11/22: They do a good job and even clean up, too

Editor, the Forum:

Nice comments about Nils Stein and Frontera Restaurants! (Forum, Nov. 19.)

He has catered several Mexican Fiestas at our home and is doing so again in December, but not Mexican. That is yet another plus, as he caters for German, Italian or whatever you like!

He and his staff do a wonderful job. They are organized and have everything down to a science. But the best part is the food.....delicious! And they leave your house clean as a whistle. Can't ask for more than that! I highly recommend them!

-- Kathy Gestar, Snellville

11/19: Poor use of apostrophe bugs this Yankee/good 'ol boy

Editor, the Forum:

When I first came to Georgia from the North, I bit my tongue and resisted the urge to say "the way we did it up North is ..."

But now this Yankee transplant has had it with one aspect of Southern culture. There is a prevailing tendency here in the South to pluralize nouns by adding "___'s". I saw, for example, two recent signs, "The Amber's Gardens" on Beaver Ruin Road headed Eastward and "Foors and Decor's Being Liquidated" on a building facing I-85. And now, a person even sends a comment to the Gwinnett Forum with that same mistaken way of plurization in it.

Please, y'all, be aware that in all but a few specific forms of a noun, using an " 's" to form the plural of a noun is INCORRECT in most cases. This can be seen by checking in any dictionary or other academic work on our American English usage.

My favorite dictionary, Webster's New World Dictionary, Third College Edition, page 1560, stipulates that the apostrophe before the "s" for pluralization is only used in three instances: to show plural of words and letters referred to as such ("...mind your p's and q's..."), to show plural of abbreviations (Ph.D's, M.P.'s) and when pluralizing figures (1990's).

Check your dictionary or other English punctuation text on how to form plurals of nouns before you put the next " 's" in your writing! This Yankee/now "good ol' boy" is tired of seeing our language punctuated improperly. Georgians are better than that!

-- Arthur P. Geist, Norcross

(Editor's note: Don't know, Art. Seems often my copy has to be corrected. Maybe it's the water's. Heh/Heh!.-eeb)

11/19: Feels native Georgians show lack of election interest

Editor, the Forum:

Recently I heard a radio talk show host bash Democrats as citizens making not over $25,000 a year and looking for tax credits and handouts.

Bah Humbug! This is only a myth in Georgia. For instance, I am a college graduate making well over that amount and a taxpayer and never receive handouts from anyone in Georgia.

Originally from South Carolina, I spent 12 years in Paterson, N.J.and was appalled at the lack of interest by the Georgia-borns in politics and government affairs. In previous locations, we were educated and prompted to vote.

I will wait and see what good will come out this election, whether it is the good, bad or the ugly.

-- Georgia D. Jameson, Norcross

11/15: Michigan native views Georgia political scene

Editor, The Forum:

I am a conservative Republican but...I moved here from Michigan via Texas. Over 50 percent of this state is non-Georgia born. My ancestors came to the United States in 1905. I don't have an iron in this (flag) fire. The Civil War was over long before most of us were even here.

I wanted a new flag as much as the next transplant. I know the 1956 history of the old flag. Let us vote on the flag and we will vote to change it. It wouldn't even be close. The pro-1956 flag faction is tiny, but energized by the undemocratic way the change occurred. Give them a forum, let them lose in public, and watch them go away. Quietly.

The problem with what Barnes did is he did it in secret, like a king. He believed the ends justified the means. That is dangerous to you and me. A true leader of a free people could have made the argument to change the flag, and done it in public. He knew he couldn't - he didn't have the leadership skills, but he did have deal-making skills. He wouldn't let the people vote because he was afraid - afraid he would lose. Once he lost, all his power would be gone.

Even worse, he gave us an ugly flag!

If Sonny Perdue puts the flag to a vote, look for him to lead the way in voting to change it. He understands the process and how it needs to work. When he has put the flag to rest, and we have a new flag, he may be unstoppable.

Keep agitating me - that makes your columns worth reading!

-- Bob Pociask, Snellville

11/15: Quite the stirring of a hornet's nest

Editor, the Forum:

Goodness, I didn't realize that you had stirred up a hornets' nest. Interesting the feedback in the last issue. Thank goodness someone has the sense to identify the main reason for the vote for Perdue as the re-districting. Some may like to foster the idea that Georgians are still in the dark ages of segregation. We actually have pretty good sense and are capable of making decisions, based on a rational thought process, regarding what we think is in the best interest of our state.

-- Janet Gibson, Lawrenceville

11/15: It was arrogance that got Barnes

Editor, the Forum:

I agree that the gerrymandering of disticts was the main reason for the governor's defeat, but it was his arrogance that allowed him to think that voters wouldn't care enough to make them vote against him. Where is Barnes and why haven't we heard from him?

-- Jim Hood, Lawrenceville

11/15: Most of the electorate not as stupid as politicians think

Editor, the Forum:

Seldom does a voice of clear-eyed reason get heard in all the controversy surrounding a political upset. You were right on in blaming the Democratic loss primarily on the recent reapportionment. This was the travesty that incensed most Georgia voters. Most of us are not as stupid as many politicians think. Thanks for setting them straight.

-- Mary Louise Stark. Lawrenceville

11/15: For many, it was simply, "The party, stupid!"

Editor, the Forum:

I only wish that you are right about the flag issue ... but I think you underestimate the numbers (by a wide margin!) of those who may have seen the flag as their litmus test. If in fact we get a referendum I think at best the vote will be close ... and at worse ... well I'd rather not go there!

And then you think that a large number of the populace actually chose their vote selection for governor on the basis of the reapportionment ... pretty cerebral thinking for a general voter turnout. I don't think the masses got out of bed and took off to the polls with the reapportionment issue driving them ... ... my guess is it was much more simple, and with apologies to many ... it goes like this " it's the PARTY ... stupid" .. was more like it.

-- Ed Thayer, Berkeley Lake